Skip to main content
NEWS EVENT SPECIAL SERIES

Tokyo Festival2023: Yasutake Shimaji and Tamaki ROY ON Their New Work “Ai-no-te”

2023.10.3

東京芸術祭

#PR #STAGE

Seeing a new piece of performing art of some kind may be akin to witnessing the hatching of cicadas at dawn. Of course, the artists are striving for perfection, and we are struck by the performance they achieve. At the same time, it is also true that what is taking place on stage is something “in the process of change. It is a stimulating experience for the audience to witness this “time of change,” like the cicadas in the early morning as they dry their wings and eventually flutter off to some unknown destination.

The dancer Yasutake Shimaji, who has presented works in Japan and abroad after working with world-renowned choreographer William Forsythe, and the rapper ROY Kanroi, who has been active in a variety of fields in recent years, including performances on stage, with music at the core. The collaboration work by the two will be performed at the “Tokyo Performing Arts Festival 2023” (a double bill with Mariko Kakizaki’s “Can’t-Sleeper” titled “Tokyo Performing Arts Festival x Aichi Arts Theatre x Dance Base Yokohama Performing Arts Selection 2023 in Tokyo”). This is a new work by the differently colored tag team whose previous work “Arika” (2016- / produced by Aichi Arts Theatre) was much talked about.

NiEW reporters visited the two just before the world premiere at Aichi Arts Theatre in mid-September. We sat down with the creators of “In the Midst of Change” to talk with them, with the presence of Tokyo Performing Arts Festival FT label program director and dramaturg of the current work, Nagashima Kosada (Nagashima says he is their “consultant” and “engineer of production methods” in this work).

An Arduous Creative Journey: From Being on the Same Page to Bringing Their Vision to Life

-I watched a video of the rehearsal on the day before the interview, and while the previous work “Arika” was a clash of words and bodies between two different genres, in this work, Shimaji speaks the dialogue, and Tamaki speaks the dialogue and dances, while rapping only a little. I was surprised at the way the two of you mixed and matched so much. How do you feel about it?

Tamaki: I don’t know.

Shimaji: Hmmm. (looks out the window).

Yasutake Shimaji
was a member of The Forsythe Company from 2006-15. Formed the unit Altneu〈Altneu〉 with Hana Sakai. Became a member of Shiseido’s Seventh Tsubakikai and exhibited installation works in addition to performances. Recently, he co-created and performed “Arika” with ROY at Aichi Arts Theatre, and created “Oto noe” as the first Japanese artist to be selected for the residence program (Fabric Chaillot) at the Theatre National de Chaillot in France. She is a guest artist at DaBY, and has performed with Yoko Ando in “Study # 3”, a duo piece choreographed by William Forsythe for the Aichi Arts Theatre and DaBY’s project “Genealogy of Dance”.

-(Looking at the rain caused by the typhoon from Outside) Do you have any?

Shimaji: At least, I can say it is a work about scenery.

-It is true that “Ai no te” begins with a story about a certain landscape.

Shimaji:First of all, looking back at our previous work “Arika,” it was composed in such a way that the two of us were facing each other on stage surrounded by the audience, and I was concentrating on observing and understanding Tamaki’s every move.

Shimaji:This time, since the program was performed together with other works, we were naturally placed side by side facing the audience in the usual stage configuration. At first, I felt somewhat uncomfortable with this arrangement. I wondered what I should do (laughs).

-So it all started with the confusion of having the two of you standing side by side instead of facing each other.

Shimaji:We started creating last year, and we thought that if we were going to perform side by side, we might as well do it like a manzai (comic dialogue). At that time, we talked about names all the time.

-Name?

Shimaji: I heard that you have trouble saying your own name, Shimaji Yasutake.

Tamaki: (Dancer) Kaiji Moriyama has a high symmetry ratio and is very stable with his letters.

Shimaji: We were talking about such trivial things as (laughs).

Tamaki: It wasn’t much of a story to cover (laughs).

Shimaji: Even back then, I had an image of “dancers who don’t dance and rappers who don’t rap. In my case, not dancing is also dancing. I don’t know if I communicated that well to Tamaki-san.

Tamaki: No, I did convey the image to him, and he was very much in agreement with that image. In short, at first we did not have an image of what it would be like to perform face-to-face in a theater, and we had a feeling that if we used the skills we both possessed in dance and rap as is, it would only end up being a deja vu sequel to “Arika”.

Tamaki ROY
Born in Miyagi Prefecture in 1981. Produces musical works mainly using rap music. He has released 6 music albums and performed at various music festivals in Japan and abroad. He also participated as a musician in the TV program “Design a neo” (NHK Educational 23 years). Produced and performed music for the play “Vacuum Cleaner” (Kanagawa Arts Theatre, 23 years). Performed in the performance “Arika” (produced by Aichi Arts Theatre) at the Maison de la Culture du Japon à Paris (20 years). Published the picture book “Yoyo Shoujo Tenkai” (Fukuinkan Shoten, 2008). Produced music for the exhibition “Geological Strata of the Future” at the National Museum of Emerging Science and Innovation (Miraikan, Tokyo, 2007). Music video “The Way Things Are” was selected as a Jury Recommended Work at the 21st Japan Media Arts Festival, and was a guest artist at DaBY.

-Tamaki: You were at the stage before the image of “dancers who don’t dance and rappers who don’t rap” was shared.

Tamaki: I took what I thought was the quickest leap, which was to say, for example, that just talking is dancing, or just talking is music, or some kind of John Cage-like expansion (laughs). I don’t dance, I don’t rap. When I dared to move in a way that was not hard, or not motivated or sharp, he asked me to move a little less lazily, and I actually started to move more briskly (laughs). I’m actually starting to move more briskly now (laughs), and I’m doing raps too.

Shimaji: No, it wasn’t so much that he was moving in a way that seemed unmotivated, but rather that he was simply moving in a way that could have looked that way! Also, it was Tamaki who started talking about rapping! (laughter)

Was Tamaki-san’s move choreographed by Shimaji-san?

Tamaki: There is no choreography. I just move on my own.

Shimaji:But it is true that the composition may have become more lively and snappy than it was at first. I’m wondering if it would be good to have a little more time before the performance where nothing happens.

Tamaki: Seriously? I’d like to see a little more of the usual elements. I want to end the play with a dark ending (as many stage productions do), or something like that.

Shimaji:Yes, you are talking about a dark ending. I’m thinking about whether I want to start from the brightly lit seats instead of from the sleeves, or whether I want to end without a blackout, as if to say, “Well, it’s over now.

The Process of Creating How It’s Made

-I am looking forward to seeing how the production will turn out (laughs). (Laughs.) In the case of “Arika,” you created a work without a common language. How do the two of you judge whether something is good or bad?

Tamaki: In most cases, Shimaji-san says, “Let’s do it this way,” and I say, “I like it.

Shimaji:Yes, that’s right, but we often make judgments through conversation during rehearsals, such as “Oh, that was easy to do” or “That was a good pause.

Tamaki: Indeed, such judgments are very clear. Nagashima-san watches over the exchange with a smile on his face (laughs).

Shimaji: As we work together, I often ask Nagashima-san, “How did you like it? Shimaji:As the two of us worked together, we would often ask Mr. Nagashima, “How did it go? We are the ones who do the work, so there is always the possibility that a movement or structure that doesn’t feel comfortable to us from the outside may actually be more interesting.

-How about you, Mr. Nagashima?

Nagashima:You two are the performers, so we are a group that cannot make any directorial decisions from an outside perspective, so I try to respond to you by saying how it “looks” from the outside and what I think it means.

Kaku Nagashima
His specialty is dramaturgy in performing arts. While a student at the university, he studied and translated Samuel Beckett’s late prose works and began working in the theater as a subtitle operator and translator of performance scripts. As a pioneer of Japanese dramaturgy, he has participated in various collective productions ranging from theater, dance, and opera to art projects. 2018-20: Director of Festival/Tokyo, currently Program Director of the Tokyo Performing Arts Festival FT label.

Shimaji: Usually there is a director who makes decisions, but this time it seems like you are really creating the piece together.

Tamaki: The question you are asking us now is, in essence, “How are we making it? ……It’s a mystery, though, isn’t it?

-Yes, it is a mystery (laughs).

Tamaki: It’s a mystery to me, too (laughs). (laughs) In other words, I feel like I am creating “how to create. With “Arika,” I had to start from scratch to “create how to create,” so it was really difficult. At the beginning of this project, I honestly thought it would be a bit tedious to start from scratch again (laughs). (laughs). It was hard to expand the scope of the project even if it was just the two of us talking.

-But “Arika” was a point of arrival, wasn’t it?

Tamaki: In the early stages of “AINOTE,” when we were discussing the name I mentioned earlier, we were both groaning “hmmm” and spending time aimlessly (laughs). Then Eri Karatsu (Executive Producer of Aichi Arts Theatre / Artistic Director of Dance Base Yokohama) said, “These guys can’t do it alone! (laughs), and she sent Ms. Nagashima to me. Mr. Nagashima said, “How about this?.

Shimaji: There was a time when we were looking for a play for a two-person show, and Mr. Nagashima made various suggestions at that time as well.

Nagashima:Ryunosuke Akutagawa’s “The Dark Question and Answer,” Samuel Beckett’s “Waiting for Godot,” and E. T. A. Hoffman’s “The Window in the Corner” were some of the plays we were looking for. I was not present when they were working on the names, so I had no idea.

Shimaji & Tamaki: Hahahahahaha!

Exploration of “Words” and “Body.” Do Words and Emotions Come After the Body?

-What was the video footage of?

Nagashima: It was a documentary film called “Koyaanisqatsi: A World Lost in Equilibrium” (1982, directed by Godfrey Reggio), in which Francis Ford Coppola is credited with lending his name, and Philip Glass is making music. American urban and natural landscapes are shot anyway, with images incorporating slow motion and fast turns. The two of us watched the film separately, and as we did so, we spoke as we liked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDW-1JIa2gI

Tamaki: Due to the structure of the performance, there are parts where Shimaji-san says what I said, but as a result, only the words I said remain in the text.

Shimaji:For my part, I shifted to translating most of my words into actual movement.

Nagashima: Tamaki-san rewrote and rearranged the transcribed text for his own speech, while Shimaji-san started using my compressed text for his own choreography.

-I would like to ask you about that. What do the words/body mean to both of you? You are a dancer who has often used words in your performances even before collaborating with Tamaki-san.

Shimaji:Well, as you can see in the dialogue of “Ai no te” (……), I have always thought that words, or rather narrative feelings, come later after the body. At the same time, I am interested in things like onomatopoeia. I have a sense that words are like hands, in the sense that the tongue moves, and I have a sense that they are terminal movements. After my body moves, I sometimes verbalize it in order to organize it.

-It is an interesting story that I cannot immediately say that I understand. You continue to deal with the existence of language, which comes to you after a certain delay, don’t you?

Shimaji:I don’t know, maybe I have a complex about language. I can’t handle them well. I can’t immediately say that there is a subject, a predicate, and a modifier.

Tamaki: But you can write it down in writing, can’t you?

Shimaji:That also takes time. …… Yes, I think words are something that takes time. Dancing can be done right then and there. That is exactly what I do, although I don’t know if these words are conveyed (laughs).

The Enchantment of Performing Arts: A Fusion of Expertise, Style, Narratives, and Beyond

-What does the body mean to you? I have the impression that you have been moving in mysterious ways since the beginning of your career as a rapper, but what is your interest in the performing arts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4n7MMETGVI
Video from the beginning of his career, 2011

Tamaki: After making “Arika” in 2016, I started to watch a lot of contemporary dance. I also watch performances of overseas dancers in Japan and watch videos. I am interested enough to go to the theater from time to time, putting aside for the moment whether I will perform or not. I sometimes encounter a highly trained body, an exploration of the look in a fashion sense, and elements of theater, etc., all highly combined.

But in the first place, I started out creating things that were created on the premise of being reproduced, that is, sound sources, and since I began my creative process under the tutelage of these sources, I have a strong orientation toward creating things that can be recorded or that will remain. (Grabbing the coffee cup in front of him) I just like the composition of a single object, but I think Shimaji-san is better at the idea of moving toward the entire space. I am always impressed and learn a lot from him. Still, Mr. Karatsu and Mr. Shimaji tell me that I should give a performance because of my good moves, so I am allowed to do so.

Shimaji:It is true that Tamaki-san put a lot of energy and passion into writing the text this time as well. On the other hand, you put a lot of energy and passion into writing the text.

Tamaki: Basically, I left it up to Shimaji-san. First of all, there is a huge difference in experience.

Shimaji:In my case, I like to create these cups (while holding a cup), but I also like to think (while moving multiple cups on the table) about how to place them, where to position them, when they appear, change places, disappear, and so on. I wonder, I like to feel the “weight (of placing and moving multiple bodies).

Tamaki: So maybe your scale is bigger than mine.

Shimaji: No, I can’t stay away from my body anymore. I think you spend more time away from your body. For example, when you are reading a book, you forget about your body except for the moments when you feel thirsty, need to go to the restroom, or have stiff shoulders, right?

Tamaki: That’s not good, isn’t it?

Shimaji: No, no (laughs). (laughs) On the contrary, even as I am talking, I am aware that my weight is here. I guess I am a person who is pulled by my body. …… (smiling)

RECOMMEND

NiEW’S PLAYLIST

NiEW recommends alternative music🆕

NiEW Best Music is a playlist featuring artists leading the music scene and offering alternative styles in our rapidly evolving society. Hailing from Tokyo, the NiEW editorial team proudly curates outstanding music that transcends size, genre, and nationality.

EVENTS