INDEX
“Kujira” Encapsulates both Fury and Hope: “There are facets you won’t grasp until you’ve hit rock bottom.” (Shing02)
-What was the inspiration for “Kujira,” and how did you and Shing02 communicate with each other?
Kokawa： It was a grand theme, so I immediately thought, “I definitely want Shing02 to do this. I wanted to know how the natural world feels about the human world. I wanted a lyric in Japanese.” That was the first order I gave.
-Why did you make that order?
Kokawa： I have always been interested in the relationship between humans and nature, and I thought that Shing02-san has a very deep philosophy on this subject, so I thought it would be great if I could pull out the most interesting parts of his philosophy.
-I thought it would be great if I could pull out the most interesting parts of that philosophy.
Kokawa： No, I have been thinking about this at the same level for a long time, so I thought it would be very meaningful if I could provide some kind of answer here. I was told, “There are three levels, which one do you choose? We discussed in the car on the way to Inoue’s studio whether we wanted the lyrics to be positive about the existence of human beings, negative or dark, or if we should strike a good balance between the two.
-I heard that you produced the song at Inoue’s studio at jizue in Kyoto.
Shing02: I do a lot of collaboration in my usual environment, but I think it is good to concentrate in the studio, and just like in a session, things happen that can only be done there. Of course I get some time to write the lyrics, but I already feel like a super saiyan and get serious in that time.
Kokawa： When Shing02 asked me earlier, I said “in the middle,” but I regretted it a little later. I wondered why I chose “in the middle. What I am particularly interested in is the anger part, so I wanted to ask what happened when I ordered the anger part.
Shing02: But as you can tell from the song, it ended up being about 80% anger. My job was to create a story that fit the world of the song, and since the song was very dark, the image of a deep sea, or a place where light cannot reach, was the starting point. However, I am a fan of Osamu Tezuka, and in his works, no matter how dark the story is, there is never despair. There is always a little bit of hope. That is completely integrated into my ism. In the case of this story, human beings may be nothing more than a nuisance from the perspective of the natural world. However, if you zoom out and look at the long, long history, what will happen in the future? I think it is because of this that we are going to move forward with this story.
-That is why we end with the words, “If we continue on this path, there is nothing but discovery.
Shing02： It’s more like that’s the only hope.
Kokawa： When we were talking in the car earlier, Shing02 said, “It would be better if human beings perished already.
Shing02 : I didn’t say it with such a straight face [laughs]. He is not such a scary person. In short, there are some things that you don’t realize until you have fallen to the ground. With capitalism advancing so rapidly, the gap between the rich and the poor is widening, demonstrations are happening all over the world, and the situation is really not good. No one knows what Corona was about this time, but I think it is a time for people to reset themselves and correct their various values. I think there are a great many people who have realized something after all sorts of things have been sifted out. On the other hand, those who have always been stoic up to that point will simply continue on their way.
-What do you think, Kokawa? Do you think it would be better for human beings to perish once?
Kokawa： Actually, I have been thinking that for a long time, so when I heard those words while driving, I thought, “I knew it! I was spurred on by my own accord, but I’ll hold off a bit.
Shing02: Don’t take it too seriously. I don’t really mean it. To put it bluntly, if we consider ourselves as human beings, we deserve some of what we get.
-Lyrically, of course, the track is tied to the arrangement, which is reminiscent of whales and the grandeur of the ocean.
Kokawa： When I wanted to express the world of the song with just the drums, I amplified the sound of the drums a lot. I jumped up the overtones and interesting frequencies to the extreme and filled the space. It was interesting to me because there are not many drummers who do that, and it made the sound stronger, so I thought it would fit with the strength of the message and theme. As for the sound of the track, I worked with Mr. Miya of Hanamaui Studio in Kyoto to create it through repeated experiments.
Another experimental thing this time was that I really like free-tempo drumming, so I wondered how Shing02 would apply his rapping when the tempo was completely eliminated, and experimented with that. I threw it out there thinking, “I don’t care if he doesn’t like it,” but he got over it without difficulty.
-It was the middle part of the song, wasn’t it?
Kokawa： That’s right. The rhythm was not consistent at all in that part. But you did a great job rapping on top of it. I like that part the best because it’s something I’ve never heard anywhere else.
Shing02: Even if the rhythm is not consistent, the tempo of the song as a whole is something, so we just assign it to that tempo, or rather, we try to fit the beginning and end of the story. I would be very happy if our half-experimental approach evoked a variety of images, and I sincerely hope that the final result can be interpreted freely. By the way, how did you record the whale’s cry?
Kokawa： Yasutaka Okada, the bassist of kotto, plays an instrument called a daxophone, and he rubbed it with a bow and added a lot of effectors. He is very particular about the whale’s voice, and he produced a perfect take in one shot during the recording. kott also has a song that weaves a story of the deep sea, so it was very smooth to share that image.
-How do you feel the song turned out?
Kokawa： Perfect.
Shing02： Thanks to Inoue.
Kokawa： Yes, it was. Inoue-kun also made the recording process go very smoothly, and because of our relationship with Shing02, we were able to do it in a relaxed space, which was also a big factor. Even though we experimented so much, we were able to package the message, the story of the song, and the beginning and end of the song beautifully. It probably won’t happen again. That’s what I like about improvisation, but I really think it was a miracle.
