Unraveling the Complexity of Human Relationships with Director Rikya Imaizumi

The Film’s Mood was Set by the Tug-of-War Balance between Yoko Maki and Imaizumi

– What kind of communication did you have with Tetsuya Toyoda, the author of the original story, when you started working on this film?

Imaizumi: When I first met Mr. Toyoda, I wrote him a letter of sorts. I have my own film called “Sayonara to Boring Days” (2017), and like Hori in “Undercurrent,” it is about the loss of someone who was close to me and visiting his hometown.

– This is your seventh feature film. Set in Tokyo and the director’s hometown of Fukushima five years after the disaster, it is an ensemble piece that depicts various aspects related to filmmaking and views on life and death.

Imaizumi: I can’t really verbalize my reasons, but I understand the feeling of “I want to meet people who knew my loved ones when they were alive. I wrote a letter about what I thought about that and gave it to him.

– In the past, you have made films in which the motif of “passing each other by” has been included. I think one of the characteristics of his works is the “ridiculousness” in them, but I think there was a tingling sensation in this work that did not reassure the audience. Was this something you were consciously aware of?

Imaizumi: It was not conscious. It is true that the weight of laughter was lower than usual, but I think that was largely due to the performance of the acting department. It is a story about people who have been through serious trauma, so the actor’s club played it sensitively.

– You had a theme that connects to your previous work “Chihiro-san” (2023) in the sense that you are dealing with a trauma from the past.

Imaizumi: If I talk about the creative process, “Undercurrent” and “Chihiro-san” were actually made at the same time. So I think they were both influenced by each other to a great extent.

– How did you approach and direct the traumatic motif of the “past”?

Imaizumi: It was very difficult to find the right temperature. I talked a lot with Maki-san, and Kanae (Yoko Maki) is in such a state of shock that she has forgotten her past, which she can never forget. I envisioned her as “completely forgotten” in her daily life, and Ms. Maki played the role with a similar nuance, but with the sense that “even so, there is no way she can forget.

– So, the subtle nuances of the characters’ performances change.

Imaizumi: Yes, it does. Mr. Maki played the role with a lot of tension from his past trauma. On the other hand, I was unconsciously trying to loosen the tension, as I always do in my works. That kind of “tugging at each other’s strings” in a positive sense may have created the tingling atmosphere of this work. Our goals are the same, though. It’s more like a difference in methods and tastes. But there were many things that came about thanks to Mr. Maki.

Balancing Cinematic Quality with Realism in Filmmaking

– I have the impression that you have made a lot of modifications for the movie, while also incorporating the essence of the original work. What scenes did you want to include in the script?

Imaizumi: There were scenes that I wasn’t sure whether to include or leave out. For example, in the first half of the film, there is a scene in which Kanae and Hori (the actress) have a conversation about “Have you ever wanted to die? (Have you ever wanted to die?) in the first half of the film. I wondered if two people who have only just started living together would talk about such things face-to-face. It is difficult to portray them as people who do not have a general sense of distance from others.

– That scene was impressive. It was a dramatic dialogue that I have not seen in any of the director’s previous works, and I felt it was unexpected in its depiction of a situation that is disconnected from everyday life.

Imaizumi: I knew it.

– You knew it?

Imaizumi: I don’t strictly adhere to the reality line, but I don’t usually use dialogue or descriptions that are far removed from everyday life in my films. Unusual scenes are very typical of movies, aren’t they? So I understand the temptation to do so, but I don’t want to run away from it. It will become a film that already exists.

I kept that in mind, but this time I relied on the original story and shot with care. I don’t think I would have shot the scene where Kanae sinks into the water, or the fantastical shot where she dreams about past events.

– I have the impression that the director’s work is therefore tied to my own life. But there are also many films that showcase illusions and spectacular scenes, aren’t there?

Imaizumi: There are many. However, I was conflicted about doing that for my film. I needed to find a balance that I had never found before, so when I was torn, I trusted the original work. Also, I feel that Haruomi Hosono’s music connected the everyday and extraordinary aspects of the film.

Also, I think I was able to capture the core of a human being, or rather, a number of painful and strong facial expressions that could never be captured in a superficial performance, and this was greatly helped by the performance of the acting department. At the same time, I had to pay attention to the “intensity” of the images.

– What do you mean by the “strength” of the images?

Imaizumi: I was concerned that the strength of the words and actions would be greater than in the manga because they were performed by real people. It could make certain lines sound as if they are the “correct” answers. There is a possibility that the audience will perceive the performance with an intensity beyond the creator’s imagination.

I felt this way with “Chihiro-san” as well. Before the film was screened, people who saw the trailer criticized the film, saying that it depicted a male director and a former sex worker as a person who provides services to men. They said, “How can you take a homeless man home and wash him?

Imaizumi: I wondered whether I should include the scene that was criticized. I could understand the criticism, and I felt that the depiction was problematic from the homeless person’s point of view. On the contrary, I thought that if I were a homeless person, I would definitely not like it. I would not want to be washed without permission. I thought that would be a form of assault, and I wasn’t sure whether to remove that scene or not. But Chihiro is not a normal person. She doesn’t think like me. When I imagined Chihiro’s out-of-this-world personality, I thought that the scene would help convey the character of Chihiro, so I made the decision to include it.

If I did not have such standards, I would have ended up with a film in which all the characters are what I consider to be righteous people. That is why I am careful about which point of view I should write the script from. I want to say out loud that not every line of dialogue reflects the director’s ideology (laughs).

– Back to “Undercurrent,” the original story is more conversational. Did you reduce the dialogue to highlight the “character’s inability to express his true feelings”?

Imaizumi: There is a big practical problem: putting all the dialogue in the film would be too long. I talked with Kaori Sawai, the scriptwriter, many times and made a lot of choices. In the final scene between Kanae and Satoru (Eita Nagayama), we discussed it with the actors, and we changed back some lines and added some words that were not in the original story.

– Why did you add these words?

Imaizumi: Because I thought that if I didn’t say this much, they wouldn’t understand. It was an important scene for Satoru and Kanae, so I carefully added and subtracted one line of dialogue to close the distance between them.

Eita was also very sensitive in his performance, paying attention to how much he looked into Kanae’s eyes, and I was very impressed as I looked into the camera. Maki also said during an interview leading up to the release of the film, “Eita was amazing in this scene.

The Value of Acknowledging the Unfathomable in Personal and Global Relations

– What this film made me think about is that, although the basic premise is that people cannot understand each other, they still wish to understand each other and are troubled by the “still” part of that desire. The play has a line “What does it mean to understand someone? I would like to ask the director’s opinion on this question.

Imaizumi: It is the same for me. It is difficult to completely understand other people. I don’t think I can even understand myself. Depending on the person I confront, I may be respected or taken lightly, and I cannot define “me. When even I don’t understand myself, it is only natural that I don’t understand others.

On top of that, I thought that this film may have been a film that considered a lot of “still” parts, after hearing your current impressions. Every interaction is trivial, but it depicts an “attitude of trying to know the other person.

– What do you think about the behavior of other people that you don’t understand?

Imaizumi: I am the type of person who, even if someone says or does something that is completely different from what I think, I don’t reject it outright and say, “That’s different,” but rather I accept it and say, “There is another way of thinking. I want to accept it. I don’t mean that I accept everything, but I accept it and then discuss it.

I think that such “discussion after acknowledging the existence of incomprehensible entities” is important not only between individuals, but also between two regions with different cultures, even in the case of wars between countries.

– I thought that “family” is especially difficult to understand and to talk about one’s true feelings, like Kanae and Satoru. My own theory is that “if we always clashed with each other about our true feelings, we wouldn’t be able to live together.

Imaizumi: I understand that opinion, though (laughs). I think the important thing in a family is not to be tied down. I myself have no memories of being tied down by my parents, and I am very grateful for that.

Even family members like different things and think differently. For example, as a parent, I worry about my child watching YouTube all the time. I really don’t want them to watch YouTubers with bad mouths or anything like that (laughs). But everyone likes different things, so as long as they keep to a minimum promise, I try not to restrict them.

I think there is always something to learn from everything. It’s like playing NES when we were kids. We were told, “If you play it all the time, you will become an idiot. It’s the same thing. So I try not to easily deny what they are enjoying, even if I don’t think it’s interesting.

– Do you think the same way when you are faced with a major choice, such as your career path?

Imaizumi: I think that parents should not ignore their children’s wishes and guide them in their career paths or love lives. Of course, they want to guide their children because they are important to them, and they have a responsibility to nurture them, but whether the “good life” you think is a good life for them is a different matter. Even when dealing with children, I want to be open to their opinions.

My wife and I are on equal footing, so we share our opinions with each other.

– Do you ever feel afraid to tell your wife how you really feel?

Imaizumi: I am not afraid because she is the only person with whom I can talk about my true feelings. But we fight a lot. It can’t be helped (laughs). (laughs) Recently, I had a headache because I couldn’t convey my feelings to the other person properly.

– What kind of topics do you disagree about?

Imaizumi: I myself am not particular about anything except about my creative work, so there is not much disagreement in my daily life. I remember when I first got married, I was asked every day, “Do you want to have dinner? I hated being asked that question every day when I first got married.

I was used to the freedom of living alone, and since we started living together when we got married without living together, I thought, “I don’t know what I’m going to do at night when it’s daytime. The person I was talking to was always trying to be helpful, but it was hard for me.

– I can understand both sides of the argument, so it is difficult.

Imaizumi: I know it is an extravagant statement. It is not so cramped as to be “constrained,” but I felt that my life was very restricted.

– You mentioned that you were not tied down by your parents, but I imagine that they did not have a relationship that pushed you away as much as they left you alone. How did you develop a relationship of mutual trust?

Imaizumi: They were strict in some ways, but they respected my opinions. For example, when I told him that I wanted to work in film in the future, he was very understanding and did not oppose me.

I later found out that my father wanted to be a writer, but his parents were against it. His bookshelf was filled with books on novels and scenario writing, and I am sure he really wanted to be a writer. However, his grandfather did not approve, saying, “It is not something that the eldest son in the countryside should do. Perhaps he looked back on that experience as a lesson to me, but he was very supportive of me.

Creating Art that Challenges Taboos and Encourages Diverse Perspectives

– I was encouraged by the actions Hori took before giving up on relationships. It is not easy to build a relationship of security and trust. I think that scene showed one of the things that can be done in such situations.

Imaizumi: In a positive sense, “not expecting too much from the other person” is probably important when trying to build a deep relationship with someone. It is important to want to trust, but if you deny the other person’s ability to do what you want, you will not be able to build a relationship with them. and denying it, you will not be able to build a relationship.

It may be better to be happy that someone understands or appreciates you, even if only a little, based on the premise that you and others are different, and to be exaggeratedly happy that they understand you. But “getting angry” is also difficult without love, and it is generally hard to say.

– I think it can be said that the more angry or jealous you are, the more affection you feel toward others.

Imaizumi: Yes, that’s right. Speaking of jealousy, this may be completely unrelated, but the other day I received an e-mail from a woman I don’t know via Twitter (currently X) DM that was a kind of love advice. She said, “I looked at my boyfriend’s phone because I suspected he was cheating on me,” and after reading the message, she continued, “But when I looked at his phone, I found that he had also DM’d Director Imaizumi and asked him if he could forgive her because she was cheating on him, but he liked her. And he said, ‘I’m going to try to trust her again. I will try my best to make her like me more.’ And then he wrote, ‘I’m going to try to believe in her again. I am glad that I was able to confirm that he likes me. That’s all I have to report, and I swear to Director Imaizumi that I will never cheat on him again,” she concluded.

– You were the one who brought the couple together.

Imaizumi: No, I thought they should have done it on their own without me (laughs). I said, “First of all, don’t look at your girlfriend’s phone! Also, don’t cheat on your girlfriend! I replied, “First of all, don’t look at your girlfriend’s phone. But I was surprised to learn that good things can happen when you look at your girlfriend’s phone, even though I had thought nothing good ever happened when you look at your girlfriend’s phone. It’s too rare, though.

– I was surprised to find out that good things can happen, too. It seems to be a scene from one of Imaizumi’s films.

Imaizumi: Like in “By the Window” (2022), I think he is always questioning and thinking about things considered wrong by common sense from every possible point of view. I would like to continue to depict such things that are considered wrong from the standpoint of social common sense, but that are questioned and considered from all perspectives.

For example, in a love story, it is considered wonderful to be together for the rest of one’s life, but that is not the only way to end a love story. I think it is also important to remember that they were indeed together, even if only for a day or a season. I want to capture those moments in my films.

– Last but not least, what was this film like for you?

Imaizumi: Although I had my conflicts, such as the scene I mentioned earlier where I talk about death, I was very careful in making the film, and I feel that the intensity of the film comes from the tension I put into it. Anyway, it was a film in which I was troubled by every scene.

It just still bothers me (laughs). I am satisfied with the editing, cinematography, and acting, and we did the best we could, but it is difficult to know the right answers, such as, “Should I have included that scene? I can’t wait for the film to be released to the public, and I would like to hear what everyone thinks of it.

– Are you open to hearing negative opinions?

Imaizumi: I would like to hear negative opinions. Films can be received freely, and there is no right answer. I would like to hear opinions such as “I don’t like it because it is too heavy” from people who saw it for its humor, or interpretations that I have never imagined myself. When I am exposed to such comments, I am able to think about the film from a different angle. I feel like I can finally relax about this film after receiving various opinions.

Undercurrent

Release Date: October 6 (Fri.), 2008 (National Roadshow)
Director: Rikiya Imaizumi, “Ai ga Nanda” “Chihiro-san
Music: Haruomi Hosono, “Shoplifters’ Family
Screenplay: Kaori Sawai “What’s Love” “Chihiro-san
Original story: Tetsuya Toyoda, “Undercurrent” (Kodansha’s “Afternoon KC”)
Production Manager: Joker Films, Asahi Shimbun
Planning/Production: Joker Films
Distributor: KADOKAWA
Cast: Yoko Maki, Arata Iura, Lily Franky, Eita Nagayama, Noriko Eguchi, Kumi Nakamura, Yasuon, Rio Uchida
©Tetsuya Toyoda / Kodansha ©2023 “Undercurrent” Production Committee