INDEX
Emphasizing “Being a Cat” Over “Not Being a Cat”
With this in mind, the title of the new album, “Nature and Computer,” becomes particularly fascinating. It implies that we aren’t seeing it as a simple binary of “Nature or Computer,” but rather as “Nature and Computer,” or “Nature alongside Computer.”
Gunji: I think this is a very insightful point. In AI research, it’s not enough to simply aim for fast, high-capacity artificial intelligence; there is a discussion about needing to envision a thorough connection with the external world that transcends the dichotomy of computers and nature. The importance of interfaces that connect the two is also well recognized.
In music production, for instance, those who have a deep fascination with microphones embody a viewpoint that transcends this binary framework.
Gunji: Absolutely. This can also be seen with train enthusiasts, who have a strong interest in trains as materials while simultaneously feeling a connection to nature through aspects like paint quality and the texture of the metal. This perspective transcends the simplistic view of “Nature or Machine.”
Gunji： You know those comedic “common experiences” jokes, right? Like, “Whenever you point a camera at a ramen shop owner, they always cross their arms,” or something like that (laughs). I don’t think every ramen shop owner actually does this; it’s probably a much smaller number. Maybe someone saw just one owner doing it in the past, and that impression got generalized. Yet, we all tend to think, “Ah, that’s so true!”
What’s happening here is that the opposing framework of “Ramen shop owner A crossed their arms, but ramen shop owner B didn’t” gets confused with the framework “Ramen shop owner A crosses their arms, and ramen shop owner B also crosses their arms.” The distinctions of “A or B,” “A either B,” “A and B,” and “A both B” blend together in a way that feels integrated, which is why these common experiences work as comedy.
Deto: That’s interesting.
Gunji: Nature exists as a thorough external entity in this context. On the other hand, computers, as computational devices, are present in front of us as things we can ideologically manipulate. When we reconsider the “and” in the title “Nature and Computer,” I believe that the existence of analog synthesizers, which are notoriously complex to operate, serves as a means to connect with that external reality beyond a binary opposition.
Katsuura: When I first heard the album title from Deito, I felt something interesting, even though I couldn’t quite explain why. I think it resonates with the lyrics that Deito writes as well. Perhaps he writes them without fully understanding himself.
Ideto: Exactly, that’s it [laughs].
Katsuura: Your analysis of the album title is insightful, but it also makes me think about the challenges of logically explaining those unclear, ambiguous feelings in your books like Yattekuru, Tennen Chinou, and Where Does Creativity Come From? — The World of Natural Expression. I feel like there are gaps within these texts that serve as devices for things to “come forth.” Take the comment by Makoto Yoro on the cover of Tennen Chinou, where he says, “It appears to be simply written, but don’t underestimate it. It will change your perspective on the world.” To me, it doesn’t feel simple at all. I think it’s a book that reveals something new every time I read it.
Deto: Gunji’s writing certainly provides a lot of inspiration from a creative standpoint, but it also resonates with the moments we experience in our daily lives. I think it relates to the earlier discussion about “common tropes,” especially in Yattekuru, where you explore how we recognize a single cat as a “cat.” That was particularly fascinating.
It discusses how, when we encounter a specific cat, we are merely judging it as “more of a ‘cat’ than ‘not a cat.'” It suggests that the potential realm of what “is not a cat,” which is dismissed as external, actually establishes the reality of the cat itself. Reading that part made me go, “Ah, I see!” and I found it exhilarating.
Conversely, there can be moments when we sense the potentiality and randomness of existence in all things.
Gunji: For instance, if there’s a can of cola in front of me, it retains its reality precisely because of the potentiality that it “might not be a can of cola.” Returning to the topic of creativity, I believe that unless we can understand, at a daily level, that something we cannot even imagine can “come forth,” it will be difficult to grasp the true meaning of creativity.
Deto: I truly feel that way as well.
