INDEX
Their Songwriting Approach: “Despite its Simplicity, Direct Expression actually Captivates the Greatest Mysteries.”
-Let’s focus more on the lyrics from here. Let’s start with you, Natsume-san. As you mentioned in the first half of the interview, I have the impression that the lyrics in Summer Eye are simpler than those in the band’s past. Was there a change in your mindset at the level of specific expression as well?
Natsume： Yes, In the past, for example, if I wanted to sing about a tangerine, I would describe it as “round, orange, and sour,” but recently I think it is better to say “tangerine” in a single word.
I feel that a song is complete when it is full of both sound and meaning. I try to use metaphors only when the occasion calls for it, and I feel more inclined to simply say what can be easily said.
-I think that is similar to your lyrics. I feel that your lyrics are very direct in their expression, but at the same time, you don’t just say things as they are in the words, but you sing with changes of perspective and deviations, and I get the sense that the meaning that is not explicitly expressed between the words seeps through.
Natsume: Yes, yes. I understand.
-I am very curious to know how you came up with such a string of words.
Shibata: I think it is probably because I originally studied visual arts. I learned various techniques such as collage, cut-up, montage, etc. Thanks to what I learned, I understood that there are infinite possibilities in visual expression, even if we are shooting the same thing.
You can connect anything if you want to. I think the surprise I gained from this experience has influenced the shift in perspective in my lyrics and the way I combine the words themselves, and in fact, I have been challenging myself in this way. Direct words may seem simple, but I think they are actually the most mysterious expressions. The magnitude of what those words contain is unfathomable.
Natsume: I understand that.
Shibata: I have always been a person who cannot stop anthropomorphizing. It is not an animistic idea that “everything has a soul like a human being,” but I tend to think of things in terms of human beings.
Recently, however, I have come to think that this is not enough. In other words, it seems that we have a deep understanding of nature and other non-human things, but in fact we have too much respect for the concept of “human,” or more specifically, I think we are working in an irreverent way with a kind of pride in being human.
Human beings have many good qualities, but there are also many things that can’t be helped. Looking at the situation in the world today, there are many things that can only be described as harmful, rather than helpless.
Natsume: We have been repeating the same mistakes for thousands of years. It’s getting to be a great story.
Shibata: I think it is good to describe things in a mathematical or natural scientific way. For example, “The sun is big and round. But I think you have to think carefully before using expressions like, “It’s as if the wind is talking to me.
Natsume: “Don’t anthropomorphize flowers, birds, wind, and the moon based on easy human assumptions! (laughs).
Shibata: Yes. Don’t be sentimental about it for the sake of human convenience! (laughs). (laughs). But even now, I still use such expressions.
Natsume: On the contrary, even if you use seemingly dry language, you can make interesting lyrics by using expressions that are cut and split to change the perspective, such as looking through a microscope or a telescope.
Shibata: Yes, yes. That’s why I think it’s most interesting not to play with metaphors, but to just pile on the direct expressions.
Natsume: I totally understand.
Shibata: When you write a lot of lyrics, you tend to develop a habit. I think about this so that I don’t drown in it. However, it’s not so much that I have a technical certainty, but rather that I just go with my intuition (laughs).
Natsume: But even though it is based on intuition, there comes a time when you are convinced that it is the right time, right?
Shibata: Yes. When you make something while singing, what started out as a disjointed piece of music somehow comes to make sense. This was especially true for this piece. Even in places where I thought, “Maybe this part doesn’t fit the rhythm,” if I had the guts and openness to say, “I’m going to make it fit! I found that if I had the guts and determination to “let it ride,” I could get on with it.
In the past, if there was a part where I thought, “This part doesn’t fit well,” I would replace it with another word, but recently I have come to think, “I really need this word, so I’ll just have to put my heart into it and use my expressive ability in the song! I’ve come to think, “I really need this word, so I’m going to have to put my heart into it and use the expressive power of song!
-What you mean by “doing something with the song” is to sing a convincing song, even if it deviates from the notes or musical score you had originally intended.
Shibata: Yes, that’s right.
Natsume: This reminded me of a cover version of “500 Miles” by Kiyoshiro Imawano. It is a famous Peter, Paul & Marie version of the song, but Seishiro translated it into Japanese and sang it.
Natsume： To be frank, the song’s score and groove are different from the original, but I felt that it was more like a “song” by far. That is a big hint for me when I write my own songs, and I think you may be doing exactly the same thing when you sing your own songs.
Shibata: That may be so. But I don’t do it because I understand phonology, and I think I need to study, and I really want to talk about this kind of thing with many people!
